[Bylaws-l] Fwd: RC Representation

Mon Nov 9 07:08:20 PST 2009

I have no problem with allowing every memebr to vote electronically, provided we can make it happen easily, affordably and quickly.

With current DB problems and no rewrite of the DB in sight at this point, keeping things the way are now is best.  We can always allow for changes in the future with how we word things now.  If we get a system of electronic voting in place that is secure and easy to use for the average memebr, then we change things at that point.

MGN John Roberts 
CO, USS Anasazi, NCC-62001 
Commandant, SFMC 
OIC, 898 MSG 
jcroberts2 at hotmail.com 

From: mconard at itol.com
To: bylaws-l at lists.sfi.org
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:34:27 -0600
Subject: Re: [Bylaws-l] Fwd: RC Representation

Sorry, Jack- but I disagree entirely. The system sucks and needs addressing. One of the problems is that membership is feeling entirely disenfranchised from administration as evidenced in the strings on the list over the past 10 months. Just because the “silent majority” of people don’t give a hoot does not meet we should continue to use a system that disenfranchises those of us who DO and would like to have an opportunity to directly impact our choice of leadership and NOT depend on COs who are not obligated to even solicit information from their members about leadership choices if they don’t want to.

I continue to argue that the issue of those members who don’t/won’t get computer access can request snail mail voting materials whenever there are elections. But by requiring electronic voting EXCEPT by personal request, we can lower USPS costs to STARFLEET and offset costs of electronic voting. This could be done- it is just that current leadership has made it clear in past postings to this particular list that they have no interest in advancing discussion on that point. 

I will continue to be the pebble in leadership’s sandal on this issue because I firmly believe it is the right direction to go, that it is the best interest of the general membership to do so, and that failure to move forward will COST us membership numbers in the end as the old farts die off. Longevity for an organization means creating a system and process that THEY can relate to- the under 40 crowd HATES snail mail and demands electronic access. 

Doc

From: bylaws-l-bounces at lists.sfi.org [mailto:bylaws-l-bounces at lists.sfi.org] On Behalf Of Jack Eaton
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:19 PM
To: bylaws-l at lists.sfi.org
Subject: Re: [Bylaws-l] Fwd: RC Representation

There was just an episode of "The West Wing" called "Post Hoc Ergo Proctor Hoc"; basically, which came first...the chicken or the egg. In all honesty, most local members don't give a tribble's butt about regional or fleet politics. Is that because of the way the system was designed in the first place, or is that really the way things are politically. We coud debate that until Chris Pine is as old and fat as Bill Shatner. So, we're looking at a system which, IMHO, doesn't need fixing or changing.  

I urge to keep the system the way it is; chapters having the vote. All we are doing here is codifying it in the new bylaws not overhauling every procedure.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:15 AM, CompOps <compops at sfi.org> wrote:

Hi Jack,

I don't think there is a problem with having a secure voting system.  The main problem I see is that there are a fair number of members who I have been told do not access computer all that much.  Some do not have a computer at all.  Unless we allow a proxy system whereby a CO/XO can submit votes for members who have indicated that they are willing to allow that, we need to figure out some way to ensure that everyone is able to get their vote recorded, electronically or otherwise.

John H.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jack Eaton 

To: bylaws-l at lists.sfi.org 

Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:36 AM

Subject: Re: [Bylaws-l] Fwd: RC Representation

Is it really that difficult in 2009 to get a secure online voting system?

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 9:32 AM, CompOps <compops at sfi.org> wrote:

I happen to agree with Ron on at least one point - the chapter CO's are not required to vote the will of the chapter they represent.  I have also noted, in the last region 3 election, that the chapter votes are not published.  While this may only be a peculiarity of region 3, it is something I think is necessary.  If the votes by chapter CO's are known, the chapter members can give feedback to the CO if the vote did not match 'the will of the chapter'.

As for having all members in the region vote, I think that would place a rather heavy financial burden on the regions.  I would prefer that individuals be able to vote but unless we can work out an electronic (and free) way of conducting votes, the individual vote is not a very viable option.

At the least we can mandate that chapter votes be published.

Should we attempt to work out the details of an electronic voting system?  Not that it would have to be included in the bylaws themselves (we would just indicate that an electronic option be developed) but I would personally be willing to work on such a system (if it is feasable).

John Halliday

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Dave Blaser 

To: bylaws-l at lists.sfi.org 

Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:59 AM

Subject: [Bylaws-l] Fwd: RC Representation

Good morning folks, 

For your consideration, we have a thought in regards to RC elections.

Dave

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ronald Bishop <vcs-policy at sfi.org>
Date: Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Subject: RC Representation
To: Dave Blaser <vcs at sfi.org>

Dave,

One thing I'd like to see considered is a more inclusive process of electing
the RC.  Right now, and as proposed in the Bylaws committee, only chapter
COs can vote, which disenfranchises every other member of the region.  Sure,
the CO is theoretically supposed to vote the will of the chapter, but that
doesn't necessarily happen.  Also, the members who do not belong to a
chapter have no say at all, even though the RC is their *direct*
representative.

I realize this would increase the costs to STARFLEET, but, in my opinion,
the extra cost is worth it.

(This becomes even more important if the committee ends up recommending
regions based on population rather than geography.)

Ron

-- 
Dave
dave at blaser.ca

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-- 
Towaway out.....

Rear Admiral Jack "Towaway" Eaton
CO USS Trident
Region 2 RC
region2rc at hotmail.com
towaway at gmail.com

Frak you, and the daggit you rode in on!

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-- 
Towaway out.....

Rear Admiral Jack "Towaway" Eaton
CO USS Trident
Region 2 RC
region2rc at hotmail.com
towaway at gmail.com

Frak you, and the daggit you rode in on! 		 	   		  
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